Phantom, the Great Grey Owl arrives, following Darren.

Ianna has joined the Large Table.

Cambria enters into the Ambassador, bereft of any entourage this evening. She finds a suitable place in which to take a seat, and then does so with little preamble. Those nearby her are given a courteous nod of greeting.

Ianna comes in and makes her way to the large table. Her nose is swollen and she has two black eyes, but she seems no worse for the wear.

Sparte's eyes get progressively wider and wider as people show up. He nods a little absently to Rinel, giving her a nervous smile. "Well - Welcome, everyone. Thank you for deciding to come, whether you're here to participate or just listen." He glances to Wilhelm, exchanging a series of subtle cues that seem to be too subtle judging from the number of nods and confused shakes of the head between Sparte and Wilhelm before Sparte looks to the group with a nervous smile. "There will be free wine tonight." Sparte gives an urgent glance to Wilhelm. "We'll have that sorted soon, please be patient. In the meanwhile find a seat and please, get comfortable."

"An event solely so I can meet people still sounds miserable," says Karadoc, his face frozen into a wince. "I will have to stay single." He's dresses uncomprehensibly sloppily, in silk bound about his waist with a rope, in sandals, his feet red-chapped. He bows at no one. He states, "I never expected I would be debating twin births, but here we are."

Lethe takes a moment to look around and then makes her way to a good seat.

Lady Juliana Pravus steps in, arching a brow at the number of people in attendence then without a workd makes her way across the room the take a seat at the large table a see what this is all about.

Juliana has joined the Large Table.

Darren strolls in to the Ambassador genuinely interested in what one does at a debate about twins. He finds himself a seat at an empty table, making himself comfortable before flagging down a waitress to get him a drink.

Darren has joined the Shadowy Table.

Karadoc has joined the Bar.

Lucita chuckles softly at Karadoc. "You'll survive. Go on, take your place to debate. I'm just here to watch, and have an interest since I am one of a set of twins."

Alarissa has left the Large Table.

Wylla slips in after most of the rest. She's been painting since the concert, with flecks of paint on her hands and a shy smile for the room. She sinks into the couches at the far back of the room, studying her hands, flicking some of that paint absently off them, and says not a word to Sparte or the others, in her own little world for the moment.

Alarissa has joined the Shadowy Table.

Karadoc has left the Bar.

Karadoc has joined the Large Table.

Waldemai decides to follow his whiskey with an, "Ale!" chaser.

Juliana has left the Large Table.

Ianna has left the Large Table.

Ianna has joined the Far rear couches.

Juliana has joined the Private booth.

Agatha has joined the Shadowy Table.

Lethe has joined the Bar.

And here come a pair of Archlectors: Aleksei and Aureth, the 'lectors from the Lowers, Skald and Death. Aleksei has a furrow to his brow, a restlessness about him. He flashes a smile at Darren, and he seems to consider trashing his table for a moment. But maybe he feels compelled to give the third Archlector in the room some company, because he heads over to the far couches to plop down next to her.

Aleksei has joined the Far rear couches.

Elegance arrives, following Daemon.

Aureth has joined the Far rear couches.

Daemon has joined the Large Table.

Rinel looks dreadfully excited. Her eyes dance brightly at all the newcomers, though they widen slightly when she sees Aureth and Aleksei enter the Salon. She leans over to Wynna and whispers in the woman's ear.

Aureth ambles to the couches directly on Aleksei's heels with an easy wave to all and sundry, his smile quick and his eyebrows swept high, as he moves to take a seat.

Lucita has joined the Bar.

Wylla looks up at the approach of her fellow Archlectors, gesturing them to a seat. But they've already taken one, so she blinks and just offers Ianna a gentle smile, keeping her voice low.

Darren lifts a hand in greeting to Aleksei as he passes by, though his attention is grabbed by the people at the table with him.

Wynna murmurs back.

Ianna has left the Far rear couches.

Juliana finds a quiet table alone, a glass of whiskey ordered, settles back watching the table where the debate is the happen, whatever the one half of the Pravus twins is thinking, kept locked behind her narrowed eyes.

It takes a little while for Wilhelm to sort the wine, but it does come. Glasses are brought over, enough for each person seated at or near the debate. The quality of the vintage is hopefully a fine one. For those not drinking wine, or with particular taste in wine, there are others coming around to take orders and open their tabs.

Sparte pulls out a few prepared notes, slowly standing up to draw attention before he starts to speak. "So thank you all again for coming. Here are a few basics of how this will, I hope, work out. As the moderator I will ask a question to start us off. Every so often I'll interject if I think we're too off topic or the question has gotten stale. People around the table will have turns to speak and interpret the question, pose answering questions, and so forth. The goal is to be civil and curious." He swallows. "So, uh, to open us up... We have learned a lot about life and deaht with the rediscovery of the goddess Death. Yet we know very little about why some people have twins, and some don't. The question I pose to you to start us out is this - Do you believe the gods, or the spirits for that matter, have any influence or role in whether someone has twins?" Sparte settles down, glancing around to see who starts things off.

Agatha has no such compulsion about leaving Darren's table alone. She's marching on over with, well, not an armful of bottles because with those guns, it might empty out a good chunk of the Salon's stock. But definitely a few bottles. "Hello! I do not know what most of these are. I think that we should drink them and find out!" She puts them down a couple at a time with only a few unnerving rattling clanks before she more gingerly drops onto one of the seats.

Daemon's entrance into the Salon is short and sweet. The armored man ducks in with greyhound at his side and pulls up a seat at the table with the most occupants. There are however bows made in the direction of the Archlectors as the knight of Solace shows his respect where it is due!

Rinel has joined the line.

Turn in line: Rinel

Karadoc has joined the line.

Lucita settles into place at the bar, giving a smile and little wave toward the group of Archlectors on the couches and Juliana at the table, and others she recognises. Her voice lowers to speak to those at the bar near her.

Saoirse has joined the Large Table.

Silvio has joined the line.

Wylla waves back at Lucita, her hand now speckled with paint, giving her a fond look. She's turned a bit red by now for some mysterious reason, looking a little nervous all over again. Gods only know why.

Saoirse APPEARS. Just kidding - that's weird. She steps inside from the cold, pulls her cloak off, and strides to the table with another Velenosa, presumedly because he can be counted on not to find her fashion choices "too daring".

Intellectual debate was absolutely how Abbas liked to spend his evenings. The infamous reaver prince makes his way to the bar and orders a fancy wine. He turns, sits, and holds his pinky out (except the pinky is just a nubby after an ice bear accident) and it looks strange. The man is in his squid armor. He has his helm on top of the bar and his axe resides sidelong in his lap. He then answers the question, "I always thought twins were the result of making Limerance mad at you. Like taking the God's name in vain. So bamn, twins as a result."

Abbas has joined the Bar.

Rinel jumps right in, bursting with enthusiasm as she gets to talk about her favorite topic. "Forgive a scholar her pedantry, but I believe the question must be refined. Master Fatchforth has asked whether the gods have influence in determining whether someone has twins. With our rediscovery of Great Aion, we know that They--I refer to the Dreamer here, not the Pantheon at large--have established certain first principles through Their Dream. So it is axiomatic that Aion has influence over the determination of twins, by virtue of Their influence over all things." She takes a small sip of water and continues. "The question, I believe, should properly be if the designation of twins is the realm of any one God. And I believe the answer here is clear--it is the Lady Death, who is Mother of Rebirth, who holds sway over this realm of life."

Turn in line: Karadoc

Karadoc leans his cheek against his hand and counters, rather lazily, "Does Petrichor determine how many pups a dog births? I'm sure the speaker before me is correct that there are rules in the Dream, possibly quite specific rules, but surely these require no specific attention of the gods. Surely two births or one, three births or five matter very little in the long scheme of things."

Turn in line: Silvio

Juliana sits at a private booth in the back, watchng as the debate starts.. as Abbas speaks up, her gaze flickers to the bar, catching sight both of her brother and Lucita. The later at least gets a smile.

Abbas catches that there is a line and actual rules and stuff a bit too late. And so he just contents himself to drink and watch after he blurts out his opinion. The reaver prince sips his drink and just turns at the bar to listen rather than join in. His bad. His bad.

Wynna watches Rinel at her words, smiling faintly.

Aureth has clearly stopped listening to a lot of the debate so that he can stare with pale, hard-jawed intensity across the room at the bar. He speaks in a low voice to his fellow priests and looks for all the world like he'd be about to call for a crusade if only that were setting appropriate.

Luigi arrives, delivering a message to Cambria before departing.

Silvio chuckles when Karadoc compares the multiple births to dogs, "Ohhh, I love this already. I find twins in people to be excedingly dangerous. I find it to be highly more likely to be a trick or a deceit caused by the Thirteenth? After all, many twins are a /mirror/ of each other, are they not?" He arches his elegant brows.

Rinel has joined the line.

Having received a message from none other than master Luigi, Cambria reads, sighs, then glances up at the man. He offers an impassive look her way. There's another sigh, and then off she goes.

Sparte is interjecting himself as the moderator. Gasp! He holds up his hand a moment, nodding to everyone who spoke up. "Good, excellent. This is what I was hoping to have. A debate with more than one or two sides, but multiple perspectives. I'm going to change the question a bit to ask people to recount personal examples that support their views. Who or what made you decide twins mean what they mean, if they mean anything?" He then indicates Rinel, letting her speak again.

Turn in line: Rinel

a black robed Silent Reflection arrives, following Driskell.

Aureth has joined the line.

Aureth asks mildly, voice pitched to carry, of the room at large, "Sorry, is it just me or has no one else noticed that there is a notorious child murderer observing this debate about babies?"

Someone must have been speaking about the Thirteenth, for two figures in black robes enter and one with gloved hands pulls back the hood to reveal it's Driskell. He moves off towards the side.

Karadoc has joined the line.

Silvio lifts his hands up in a surrender. "Ohhh...my tale is too sordid for mixed company. I'll have that wine though." Silvio grins slyly and gets himself a drink.

Lucita gives a soft gasp at Silvio's comment and a hurt glance to him. "Highness! You find _me_ dangerous? Alas." She looks down the length of the bar at Abbas who is seated a few stools distant from her and goes very very quiet.

Nightshade, a tiny black kitten, Penelope, Ariadne, 3 Rubino and Zaffria guards arrive, following Dafne.

Juliana looks up, her gaze settling on Aureth. "I beleive his Highness is here to support his sister as she is listening to how evil her birth is." or more likely poke fun of her. Turning her gaze to Abbas, nodding towards the chair across from her seat.

Rinel makes a warding gesture at Silvio's mention of the Thirteenth, murmuring something quietly under her breath. She opens her mouth to retort, but is stopped by Sparte's intervention. She opens her mouth to respond to the new question, but closes it as the Archlector of Death speaks. The scholar blinks. Opens her mouth. Flushes deeply at Silvio's sudden comment. Takes a sip of water. "/Yes/," she says firmly. "I do have a story. I knew two twins when I was a child--Elsbet and Sara--each looked exactly as the other. I distinctly remember catching frogs with Elsbet when she fell down crying and grabbing her foot. I thought she'd tripped, but she was fine. There was no mark or bruise or swelling. It wasn't until we returned home later that we found Sara in bed nursing a sprained ankle. Certainly there was some connection between the two. I do not believe that such kinds of connections are unique to twins--we hear sufficient stories of a wife knowing her husband has died to support a belief that Lord Limerance may tie two souls together--but it certainly seems that within a mother's womb such a connection can be forged."

Dafne, clad in black, slips into the debate fashionably late, kitten riding on her shoulder. She scans the area with a thoughtful glance.

Abbas pauses in his conversing at the bar and sets a hand on his axe. He turns slightly at his seat at the bar. Abbas looks over to his sister a moment and dips his head slightly. He adopts a stance that is not aggressive. But guarded. "I will be murdering no one. This is me being her for my sister. I will not be conversing further or taking from the debate. I wish it to be successful and not interrupted. If I must leave so that there is not dramatics and so it can finish I shall take my leave." He answers whatever voice made the comments.

Turn in line: Aureth

Saoirse creases her brows -- baby murderer? She looks left. And right. And then says to someone nearby at her table, "I'm sorry who did what?"

"No one's going to say how evil any twin's birth is without people pointing out how ridiculous that is," Aleksei says with a bit of a sigh. "That's not even a thing people actually believe."

"Then I suggest his sister find some support from someone who has never used the corpse of a dead baby as a weapon against its living family," Aureth says, his tone continuing to be very mild. "There is certainly no evil in any child. None at all. Any newborn infant upon this world. But an adult man?" Aureth rises from his seat. His stance is not aggressive. It is casual. He stands relaxed. It's a speaker's stance, though, a stance he's clearly sermonized with. His weight is balanced backwards on his heel. "The Queen of Endings places the souls of all children. Twins or no twins. She makes their souls from her own blood, weaving their energy from her own self, and sets them on the beginning of their path. I don't know the rules of the Dream that determine what children are born where, but I can tell you where their souls come from. They come from Death. And their connection, if there is one, is from Death. And the children you slaughtered, /Prince/ Abbas," Aureth spits the honorific with every bit of the dramatics he has been accused of, "all had souls that were placed by Death upon this world, either new wove souls fresh and bright upon Arvum or old ones who were woven a new chapter, a new chance from their places on the Wheel. So yeah. /That's/ what evil looks like. It's right there and you're all casually ignoring it because it's socially polite not to point out, I guess."

Echo has joined the Large Table.

Turn in line: Karadoc

Karadoc says, archly, "I am not watching the crowds. I am trying spectacularly hard to argue about twins, and it is, in fact, spectacularly hard. I am even indifferent to babies." He then tries to continue, "I have known plenty of twins. I have never known one to be possessed of strange powers or possessed of great evil. I have known them to be people. If we decide that someone's birth circumstances amount to instilling something in a child's nature, why stop there? I was born on a stormy night, I was born under a new moon. A leaf settled on my head before I took my first cry. This is meaningless."

Wylla watches the tension between Aureth and Abbas with rising unease and a quiet murmur to Aleksei, her hands flickering. She manages, somehow, to drop a fold of her robe, and a tiny calico kitten pokes its head out. "Mew."

"Blessed Aureth." Alarissa calling over from the table. "I apologize that you are finding yourself unable to be in the same room as Prince Abbas, would you like to walk with me outside?" She offers.

Abbas listens but does not respond and he instead continues to drink his wine. The man decides to switch to whiskey. And he asks for two fingers. He puts down the coin and just ignores it at the moment.

Echo has left the Large Table.

Echo has joined the Bar.

Sparte is taken aback by the shift in conversation, glancing between Aureth and Abbas a few times. It is with a start that he realizes he has run out of speakers and needs to move things along. "Okay, let's look at this in another way. If we're to agree that Death or another god is the source of all souls, and there are a finite number of souls, what does that mean for the circumstances of twins being born? Does an increase in the number of twins imply a great number of souls are waiting to return from the wheel, or a decrease mean the world is in some way saturated with souls? Or is the entire idea that there might be a finite limit to the stuff we're made of entirely the wrong direction?" He glances around to see who wants to pick that up.

Rinel has joined the line.

Dafne remains next the door, not yet flitting to a seat. The little duchess interlaces her fingers, her expression rapt as she listens to the words fired into the air. "I am quite certain," she murmurs, "that the champion of the Queen of Endings has a perfect right to be in this room, should he wish."

Aleksei has joined the line.

Karadoc has joined the line.

Turn in line: Rinel

Looking more than just a little bit nervous, Echo slips on inside and moves to settle next to Lucita. Her gaze shoots to the calico and her shoulders visibly drop as she passes a glance at Wylla next. More or less oblivious to the tension in the room, she flashes her cousin Lucita a smile and quietly orders herself a drink.

Lucita looks momentarily distressed at the turn some of the debate takes but regains her composure, taking a few slow deep breaths. To Echo she says. "Next thing one knows, they will be calling twins witches or something." She looks toward Lethe and Echo, lowering her voice so she can listen to the next round of speakers in the debate.

Aureth gives Alarissa a particularly flat look. "I will not be going anywhere, thank you /so/ much," he says. "If the honorless butcher you call a prince is going to show his face in public, he will be calumniated for his deeds by /one/ man, at least, even if the rest of the world is too busy twisting their hands over what is politic." He sits down again at his seat, his shoulders tensed in a prickle like he's a dog with hackles at their highest. His eyes are a bright glitter of pale hue, and he turns aside to Sparte with a hint of exasperation in the set of his mouth. "It's not some other god," he says, "it's Death. That is literally her thing."

"I did read the invitation, I don't beleive it said. Everyone invited unless you are Abbas Thrax. Nor do I beleive it was to given that this debate was about what sins he may have committed." Juliana points out, her gaze sliding from the Archlector to her brother, before landing on Lucita with a small nod.

Rinel checked composure + etiquette at difficulty 15, rolling 13 lower.

"Did commit," Aleksei corrects mildly.

Wylla looks back towards Echo, blinking for a moment before she realizes. She murmurs something quietly to Aleksei, and then moves for Echo over at the bar. "Would you like to hold Splat?" she offers, cupping the tiny calico in her hands. "Princess Echo, I think?" She's uneasy at all the tension, clearly, and seeking refuge in kitten talk.

Daemon has joined the line.

Saoirse's attention ping-pongs from Abbas to Aureth -- and briefly Alarissa -- then back again. She dryly comments to Sparte, lifting her voice slightly, "I think the debate has shifted."

About to go off on another tirade, Aureth snaps his teeth shut over what he was about to say and lets Aleksei's mild correction stand for whatever explosion was about to come. His breath huffs past his nose and his eyebrows dart up.

Rinel coughs slightly and takes a sip of her water. She speaks a bit loudly in an attempt to refocus attention on the debate. "I would take a perhaps controversial view and subscribe to an older theory--that twins are one soul in two bodies. This would explain the strong connection they share. Of course," Rinel says, inclining her head graciously, "such a theory could be attacked on the grounds I mentioned before--that Lord Limerance sees fit to--" She is interrupted by Aureth and she stands suddenly, her face somewhat flushed. "Please. Ladies and gentlemen. Debates are to Lord Vellichor as weddings are to Lord Limerance. This is a way in which we may honor the God of History. I understand, Archlector Grayhope, your concerns. Your peers the Archlector Morgan and Archlector Wyrmguard may tell you in detail of my failings--I will tell you myself, if you have interest, but at another time. Forgive me my directness, but this interruption is a slight to Lord Vellichor, who commands us to seek truth without fear or rancor."

Aureth has joined the line.

Sparte nods to Saoirse, giving Aureth a suffering look. Sparte makes a little pleading gesture to the man with hands together, as though it might somehow bring peace to the room.

Turn in line: Aleksei

Dafne presses her lips firmly together. She darts a sympathetic look over to Aureth, her Archlector, but after a hesitation, crosses the room to join the large table where a number of other Lycene nobility sit.

Dafne has joined the Large Table.

Rinel colors slightly and sits down abruptly, whatever courage she had failing her utterly.

"Oh, yes, absolutely!" This sentence was delivered with grabby-hands and a cheerful smile to Wylla. The drink that had been ordered has been since forgotten, or at least ignored, and she nods at Wylla's next question. "Pleasure to finally meet you, Archlector." There may have been whispers of a fight at the bar as Echo's eyebrows lift and she glances over to Aleksei next, before dipping her hand into her bag in search of a coinpurse.

Driskell has joined the Shadowy Table.

Silvio has joined the line.

Arlo, an impossibly fluffy dog with an impossibly grumpy face arrives, delivering a message to Rinel before departing.

Splat's little kitten claws dig into Echo's shoulder. "Mrrrrr," he opines about the debate at hand. Wylla just gives Echo a helpless look. She doesn't move to join the bar, given all the tension, but she does speak quietly to the princess.

Aleksei rolls up to his feet, an easy athleticism to his physicality. He takes a step or two towards the table, offering a quick, tight smile. He's less an obvious orator than Aureth; he's more raw and earnest about it. "Oh, no, they definitely can't be one soul in two bodies," he disagrees with Rinel. "Would you take away the individuality of a twin? They're clearly individuals. Like Aureth says, Death weaves all of our souls, crafts them from her blood, and places them into the world. Souls aren't a finite resource unless they're threatened by the dark magic of her Reflection, the Archfiend of Oblivion, as we endured during the Silent War. But I did have a thought once. This isn't official doctrine or anything, and I don't know it for sure. But -- while the Queen can't see what choices we'll all end up making, I think she knows our souls better than anyone possibly could. And I think she has an idea of what we might need, and where we might do good in the world. So I'd like to think that sometimes she might place a soul into the world and know -- that maybe it needs a partner. Someone to hold onto as it grows. And maybe that's a twin, or maybe that's a sibling of another age, or maybe just a close friend left nearby. When Skald's Seraph Prism died during the Reckoning, and Skald locked his power away to bind his Dark Reflection, Death set Prism's soul back into the world near Skald. She knew that he'd need her again in the next stages of his life, here in a strange world he'd never experienced from the ground. I'd like to think that's not the only time she's done something like that. I'd like to think that -- she places us near people for us to love." His smile twitches, small and faint.

Turn in line: Karadoc

Abbas stands slowly from the bar. The reaver prince holds his axe in hand. The man makes his way across the room and he shifts the weapon to rest on his shoulder. His helm he holds in his left hand and the tentacles dangle. Once he nears Juliana he leans over and will place a singular kiss on the top of her head if she will allow it. "My sister -- you are loyal, loving, passionate, and engaged in the world around you. You are the very definition of what it means to be alive and blessed by the Gods. You are blessing to all those around you as is our brother. Twins are not evil. They are not curses and they should be judged as all individuals are. I hope you and everyone else learns and thinks and honors Vellichor this evening. As I am in the way of that I shall remove myself. Know that I support and love you -- as long as I draw breath. Here or not." And with that Abbas makes his way out. Once at the door he turns and he looks to Aureth. He takes his helm and slides it over his head. The tentacles hang down upon his neck. He stares through those green lense eyes a moment for a moment and then departs.

Sparte is overheard praising Aleksei for: I'm not supposed to pick favorites in the debate but his beliefs line up pretty spot on with mine. Glad they were voiced.

Alarissa pinches the bridge of her nose as Abbas lectures in that fashion, her jaw tight, but refrains from speaking.

The set of Aureth's shoulders remains tense as he returns Abbas's gaze, unflinching; but he leans back, slowly, in his seat, and yields gracefully enough in terms of no longer spitting fire at anyone, and as he sits there, he slowly lowers his hackles. (So to speak.) Listening to Aleksei talk helps; something about his words turns his mouth up at the corners, and the breath hisses past his lips in a sigh that bears no hint of the previously gathered storm.

"Again, I mean, no one said that twins were evil," Aleksei points out to Abbas with a hint of baffle. "Or I'd be yelling."

Karadoc rises. "I suppose there are only so many ways I can posit that it does not much matter. If twins are only one soul, what of twins who are clearly far different or much alike? Or not much one way or the other? If twins are placed together out of love, then what of those who are born alone and isolated? To ascribe kindness here, is to ascribe lack of kindness elsewhere. Or I suppose we can decide that those alone are simply stronger and need less, and the speculation cascades. Does everything have to have meaning? Must where a leaf falls always be rich with purpose?"

Turn in line: Daemon

Karadoc does note, "Silvio posited twins were evil, but I suspect mostly to make people upset."

Rinel says, "I believe he posited that they were /dangerous/, much as a sword, or a flame. That is not, strictly speaking, evil."

Driskell has left the Shadowy Table.

Daemon stands up in his seat, the Knight of Solace all smiles. "Hello! Hi!" He echoes as he waves to those gathered at the salon tonight. "I have no point to make! I just wanted to give you all a round of applause for participating in an open forum of knowledge!" And so he does. His metal gauntlets make awkward 'CLANG, CLANG, CLANG'ing sounds as he alone claps in front of the crowd. "Great job! Yes!" And with that he sits back down, quieting for the rest of the procession as he rocks slowly too and fro.

Juliana arches a brow as Abbas crosses towards her and presses a kiss to her brow. The comments, have dark brows arch a little as amusement sparks in the Lady Pravus's blue eyes. "Thank you brother, it's good to know that you do not consider me evil. I will see you soon." It is not until the ex-reaver prince has made it to the door that she actually shakes her head, fingers smoothing across her brow and the whiskey in front of her is swallowed.

Turn in line: Aureth

Abbas has left the Bar.

a black robed Silent Reflection leaves, following Driskell.

Driskell leaves, following Abbas.

"You know, I had a big point to make, but Aleksei already made it, and made it sweeter than I would have," Aureth says. He doesn't rise this time; his glance has gone wry, as he lifts it towards Daemon. "So I will say only this: Death places souls where she will, and I don't know what her reasons are, but I like to think that I was placed in /my/ life, with /my/ family, for a reason. Twins might be specially close, because of a specially tight bond. And I call that a gift. Doesn't mean no one else has a gift."

Turn in line: Silvio

Silvio eyes Abas and Aureth with interest and does not seem at all concerned at the trouble brewing OR the potential change in debate topic. He does manage to get refocused off the drama and back to the question though, after hearing Rinel's answer. "Did I say they were evil? No. I said they were dangerous. Two people who look exactly alike are dangerous. One could pose for the other. A perosn might seem to be in two places at once. You cannot deny a certain risk to security, if they are same gender. Obviously a male and female cannot pass for each other. Oh dear, did I cause a bit of trouble because I was not explicit?" He rubs his lip with one finger and doesn't honestly seem overly bothered. "I do not think they share a soul, or that it means there are an excess of souls somewhere, or a dearth. A new soul could be woven or an old one patched up as easily. Some souls are simply more alike than others, like two shirts cut from the same cloth. I think we all likely have friends, except for those of you who are intolerable," he winks, "whom we considered matched to the very soul." He puts his hand on his chest here and bows his head for artistic reasons, "Relation may have nothing to do with it." He smiles at Aleksei, "I rather like what you said, very poetic."

Rinel has joined the line.

Dafne has joined the line.

Agatha lifts her head from the table of CLANK CLANK CLANK bottles at the sound of two gauntlets clapping. She hasn't paid attention to the meat of the debate for a while, but she totally lifts a hand in solidarity with the guy in the armor, even if she's not sure he ... "Did he actually make a point?" Well, whether he did or not, she shrugs and shouts at Daemon, "I think you won!" Back to drinking and talking now.

Aleksei offers a wry smile to Silvio, and a warmer one to Aureth, before making his way back over to the couches to plop back down.

Karadoc has joined the line.

"Lord Silvio, Lord Sebastian and I are twins and we you must admit look very little like each other." Juliana smiles over her glass. "Do you indeed find the two of us dangerous?"

Turn in line: Rinel

Silvio smiles amiably towards Juliana, "I would find it /very difficult/ to see you as a security risk, unless your brother looks far better in a gown than I imagine he would..."

Rinel is sitting once more, having composed herself. She takes a long drink of water before speaking. "I believe I have been bested in reasoning by Archlector Morgan. I can think of no reasonable response." She smiles at Aleksei. "But I am happy to be wrong, Archlector--I find your reasoning as pleasant as it is compelling. As to danger--well, perhaps. I have had the honor of being trained in the spear by Her Highness Reese the Princess Grayson. I can personally attest that she is dangerous. I believe Her Highness would find that statement a compliment. Danger is not evil. The warriors who saved Arx from the Silence were dangerous, one and all, and we thank the gods for their danger! But I disagree with the Lord Saik--I think every leaf that falls, falls with the knowledge of the gods; every stream that flows, flows to a current ordained by their wisdom. There is meaning in all things, though we are often blind to it."

Turn in line: Dafne

Wynna taps her lip thoughtfully.

Wylla's quiet conversation with Echo concludes. She retrieves the calico kitten, starting to walk back to the couches. There's already a bit of conversation there, and she joins it, if with her usual social uncertainty.

Aleksei declares dramatically, "I'm /super/ dangerous."

"Twins," notes Dafne, "are not always identical, as Lady Juliana has pointed out. And even with identical twins, those who know them can tell them apart. I know this; I've known twins." Her voice is tinged with sadness for a moment. "That said, twins are dangerous in the way anyone is dangerous--because they are themselves and have their own ways to make a difference. Everyone can be dangerous, either from strength or from weakness. I believe that the Queen of Endings seeds souls not like a farmer, who tosses out seed on a large field, but like a gardener, who places their flowers in thought out patterns. Our lives are ours to live, and we become what we make ourselves, but I believe she has reasons for who she places where. The fact that some souls have a connection does not make others lesser because they do not--only different."

Turn in line: Karadoc

When Wylla moved back to her seat with the calico, Echo snatched her drink up and wiggled her fingers to the others at the bar as she shifted to sit at the couches.

Echo has left the Bar.

Echo has joined the Far rear couches.

Darren gets up from his table, bowing his head to Alarissa and Agatha, "Both have a good evening." he offers, before heading for the door.

Karadoc raises his hands. "I cannot muster against the forces of purpose and love, even if I am dubious of the meaning in all things. If only because in our search for meaning, in comforting stories that spin love in every position, we must necessarily leave some loveless. We must necessarily leave some outside in the cold. I have nothing more to say about twins," says he, and leaves the table.

Darren has left the Shadowy Table.

Phantom, the Great Grey Owl leaves, following Darren.

Karadoc has left the Large Table.

Sparte rises up, glancing around the room. "I want to thank everyone who came to contribute, and to listen. The purpose of this debate was not to find a single answer, but to be exposed to thoughts and experiences different than our own. To think on matters where perfect answers may not exist, though we were graced with excellent answers tonight to which I am deeply thankful."

"This is the first of five debates the Salon is sponsoring in the near future. Unlike this one, led by a novice like myself... The others will be led by people with some degree of expertise, who might lead the questions better than I have. If this has wet your appetite for philosophy, if this is the sort of discussion you enjoy, I ask you to please not only attend the others but make known to the Arvum Philosophical Society other topics you would like brought up in future debates."

"Some people were convinced by the positions presented, some were not. That is normal, and if anything I encourage you to get to know those people who see the world differently. They'll be more valuable than I can put into words." Sparte grins at Wilhelm before looking back around the room. "I call the formal portion of the debate finished. Let conversation continue in the spirit of civil discourse for those who wish it, in larger groups or smaller as you prefer."

The line has been dismissed by Sparte.

Rinel sits back in her chair, looking somewhat exhausted, and grins at Wynna. "How'd I do?"

Silvio smiles over at Dafne and winks at her. "You look wonderful tonight, by the way, my dear. Its the hairpins I think. An absolute inspired choice with everything else black." His manner seems harmlessly flirty and ringed with fun.

Lucita has left the Bar.

Micana, the efficient amanuensis, Golden, a juvenile Oakhaven bloodhound, Philomel, the Nightingale leave, following Lucita.

Lucita leaves, following Karadoc.