Patrons
Entries
Question: How much say can a HoH have in who you take as a patron or as a protege? Can they ask you to stop being their protege or patron? What would cause a HoH to want to have one of their house members to change who their patron or protege is?
Answer: Patronage is a very respected institution, and it would be seen as crass and domineering to interfere in someone else's choices of patron or proteges unless that individual had clearly demonstrated they were an enemy of the house, or at least publicly and gravely offended them. If a HOH was personally offended by a patron or protege of a house member, it would be seen as petty to ask a house member to sever that, but there's not a shortage of petty nobles. They just might look bad for doing it.
OOCly, HOH really shouldn't ever be controlling who someone does or does not RP with except for the most extreme examples, like a character is actively trying to destroy the house in an unambiguous way or just tried to assassinate them.
Question: Q:What is the expected amount of push back/stigma to attach to socially high ranking individuals who take on proteges who are also socially high ranking in their own right? The write-up talks about a noble / commoner relationship. It seems like people are finding it reasonable enough for lower ranking nobility to also take advantage of that system, but how should PCs (and NPCs) react to a 'prince/ss protege'?
A: The change we made to have a wider rank separation was largely to make sure it's not characters that already have very formal links with someone from other ways, that would make a patronage/protege relationship somewhat redundant, like family members. It's of course still fine to say that anyone is your patron or protege, just without the coded benefits for doing so. Lower rank nobles having a much more higher born patron is not uncommon at all, and many cross fealty alliances are noted in this way.
Answer: Update: We simplified this to only require a rank difference of 1, and that the patron and protege cannot be in the same family.
Answer: The tradition of patronage between patrons and their proteges has existed at least as long as the Compact of Arvum itself, and represents a time honored way of powerful members of the nobility recognizing (and sometimes taking credit for) exceptional examples from a lower social class. Officially the practice arises from the responsibility of powerful peers of the realm, visible to all society at large, to cultivate the talents of those of lower births. In practice, it is often used by canny highborn peers to garner the praise for a peer's of lower birth or an exceptional commoner's ascent, and in turn for lower peers or commoners to gain greater social notice through their association to one of the highest born.
Perhaps the most famous historical example of a patron and protege is Queen Alarice the Great and the first Radiant of the Whisper House, Caithness. While a commoner of low birth with little experience with the peerage, Caithness nonetheless possessed great wit and social grace, and Alarice recognized the enormous potential of the young woman and helped instruct her in courtly etiquette. Introduced as Queen Alarice's protege, Caithness became a force at court, often acting on behalf of the queen and the future Radiant's great charm reflected well upon the queen and won her allies, as the esteem of both women steadily rose.
In modern days, a noble typically picks no more than a handful of commoners or lower born nobles that they believe can represent their interests and increase their social standing, and for the lower born it represents a great opportunity to be seen and associated someone of high visibility in order to leave their own mark. Not that all such patronages are purely social- House Thrax and House Redrain in particular tend to have more martial associations, with common born great champions often being proteges, and sometimes is a sign that one might even be worthy of being raised into the peerage and granted land and titles. More often than not, a protege is not from the lord's own fealty, and it is customary for high lords of other houses to see such claims on their commoners or lower nobles as a flattering sign of respect, but exceptionally acrimonious relationships between two houses can lead to one immediately assuming disloyalty in a commoner willing to associate with an enemy.
Much of protege's social standing comes directly from the patron that chooses to honor them in such a way, and while a patron can have several proteges depending upon their social standing, no protege may claim more than one patron (and switching patrons is looked upon with askance, and may carry a degree of social opprobrium if most peers find it too self-serving or unjustified). Nonetheless, more than one commoner acting as a protege for a highlord has found themselves treated with the greatest of respect from the high born, and more than one lord has found their reputation in tatters after their protege brought social humiliation on their name by countless scandals while representing their lord.
In OOC terms, patronage is an alliance between any higher social rank character and a lower social rank character. (ie, a social rank 2 character could have a protege of social rank 3 through 9, provided they are not in the same family.) The protege inherits 10% of the total prestige of the patron as long as their patronage relationship exists, and any prestige gain or loss has 10% of its value shared by the other party. This can represent any form of public alliance.
Question: Q: Petal is getting many offers of patronage. I realized that I don't know exactly what such means in this theme. I figure that asking will be better than making a guess. Can a crafter have a patron who is a noble not from the house they have fealty with? Could Petal have a patron who is not Redrain and still stay Redrain?
A: Yes, absolutely. In fact, it's as or even more common to have proteges outside one's fealty. While patronage has always existed in one form or another, the current traditions around it were largely started by Queen Alarice to encourage fostering bonds between higher nobles and lower ones or commoners, including cross fealty. Part of the idea is if one invests in the social development at court of an outstanding person, even in another fealty, it will reduce the possibility for conflict by strengthening the bonds between houses. For a lord, having a minor vassal become a protege of another lord in a different fealty would be considered a compliment, definitely not stealing someone away. This is particularly true for commoners, since even a baron for a minor holding almost certainly doesn't know all of the few thousand people in their demesne by name, and finding out a great lord essentially established a formalized friendship or teacher/student relationship with a vassal is an implicit compliment in their rule.
Q: Can a crafter have more than one patron or do they generally have one official patron only?
A: One official patron only. A patron can have multiple proteges, of individuals they sponsor either to see their social development at court, to give them a voice among their social betters because of the quality of their ideas or work, or as a teacher. For a protege, becoming more known socially and seeing them floruish at court is a reflection upon their patron (jutsified or not), so they are exclusive in that way. However, a protege could have proteges of their own. The king could be a patron of a marquessa, who is a patron for a baron, who is a patron for a commoner. There's no implicit relationship between a patron and their protege's proteges though, or between one patron's protege and other proteges.
Q: What is a crafter expected to provide their patron? I am thinking it might giving them priority on items they wish to have made assuming those items are within the crafter's ability to make? I think the patron is still charged for their orders? Supporting their patron as they can by crafting for their friends, events, allies and etc, but all within reason and for pay?
A: This is deliberately vague as specific relationships can have a great deal of variance. If a patron is sponsoring a crafter to make them more well known at court, and give them a voice there, then gifts of goods (ostensibly to show off their work) would be appropriate. However, a patron could be sponsoring a crafting because their work is so exceptional, and they just want to have first claim on their time. In that case, then not only would the crafter be charging, but the patron would likely be paying the protege a regular stipend as well. This would denote a degree of possible exclusivity and first claim on their time. For that reason, the Whisper House's whispers are all considered proteges of the crown itself, to prevent the extremely implicit bias that would make it difficult for them to be seen as impartial diplomats for hire.
Q: What does the Patron provide the crafter they sponsor? I am thinking they promote that crafter? Protect them as needed with their title, like dueling in the behalf if needed and etc? I am not sure if the patron gives the crafter a small salary or not?
A: An insult to a protege is an insult to their patron. They are specifically noting someone as their student or as someone they have a stake in. Threatening a protege is extremely dangerous, as many patrons will take it very personally, and it is extremely damaging to a patron's social clout if they ignore insults or threats to their protege because it,in effect, is saying their protection and friendship is meaningless. It's a much more personal relationship than fealty vows, and under fealty a lord takes the well being of their vassals seriously (or should, at least). Many nobles give proteges a stipend, while some proteges (particularly the more wealthy but isolated), pay upwards. Merchant princes in particular are ones known for essentially paying for protection.
Q: Are crafters expected to eventually chose a patron or is going patron-less long term considered okay?
A: It's fine to be patronless. But here's a place where it is important to remember that there are over ten million people in the Compact, and tens of million more in Arvum. A commoner is one person, and even if a dozen players playing nobles like their goods, that really shouldn't be taken as them being well known or important to the Compact as a whole or a guarantee of fame or renown. Be linked to one of the thousands of peers raises someone's stature, and it's really up to them whether that matters to them at all or not.
Q: What if the etiquette around changing patrons? Lets say Petal takes a patron and that patron stops playing much and loses interest in her work, is changing patrons possible or is it something that is set in stone once done?
A: There are never any vows of service between patrons and proteges, very specifically they are not, because it is seen as a friendship or teacher/student, sponsor/sponsoree type relationship. It is also considered extremely gauche to have any sort of contract, as these are (ostensibly) supposed to be friendships, and a specific circumstance where a powerful lord using their position to elevate a commoner is seen favorably rather than a potential abuse. If a protege leaves, or a patron desires to sever that relationship, it is generally seen as no fault, or that someone has been taught all they wished to be taught or reached a position at court where they stand on their own merits and an official recognition of that bond is no longer necessary. A polite, respectful mention of it in journals is considered fitting with social decorum. People being people, vaguebooking about just why someone was cut out to the amusement of the rest of the peerage isn't particularly uncommon, and reflects poorly on patron and protege alike. So the wise patron and protege keep acrimonious splits cordial and polite outwardly at least to not avoid looking foolish.
Question: I got some questions via mail about Whisper theme and wanted to share the answers. I'm going to cross post on the "theme questions' board, so that non Whispers have the chance to read, as well!
1. How does taking Patrons work for Whispers? Specifically, common vs noble Whispers?
A: This depends on how you mean patron. If you mean patron as in 'client', as in someone patronized your business and had you host a party, then there is no difference. If you mean a patron as in the patron/protege prestige sharing relationship between nobles and commoners, simply: the Crown is the patron of all the Whispers. In their infinite Grayson generosity, they do not restrict whispers from working with whomever they choose and spreading their awesomeness around, but the crown is the only patron. That's because the Whispers are prestigious, themselves, and it wouldn't make sense for them to be 'protege' to like, a Count. Or a Baron. Even if they are personally from a commoner background. We're reworking prestige to be a more meaningful social stat, and we will set it up so orgs can patronize people, and then back this theme up with code. 2. Is it ok for a Whisper to sell vouchers for his or her time and skills?
A: Sure, that's fine. It's like getting a voucher for an hour of pilates or a therapist or something. Seems fine!
3. Is it unbecoming for a Whisper, a master of SOCIAL AWESOME, to challenge someone to a duel over an insult?
A: Here's the thing. Whispers are masters of diplomacy, /entertainment/, morale, information, etc. Noble duels over slights are a source of great entertainment to the common people, and so it's great if a Whisper is doing that. It's not declaring a blood feud, that WOULd be a little tacky for a Whisper. But a duel to first blood (or wound) over an insult? that's just good entertainment. It's not unbecoming at all to challenge duels over insults. it is the done thing, culturally.